Feeling manipulated

[Tatsinda]

Hi folks, I just want to share a bit of my story and see if anyone here can relate.
My husband has depression and PTSD symptoms and since we had kids he has been pretty hard to live with at times. It has been a hard road and not what I expected going into having a family together. I bent over backwards to help him get a diagnosis, get treatment and deal with his problems.
I realised earlier this year that a huge range of behaviours I had been blaming on his mental health issues were actually just him manipulating me so that things revolved around him. Eg he would get home from work and lie down till tea time (avoiding parenting), not talk to me for days, lose his temper with the kids and I etc. all to avoid dealing with real life and the fact that kids take up a lot of my time and energy. He just wants to be looked after rather than stepping up as a partner. I get that depression is hard but surely it's possible to be depressed and not mean constantly to your family. He would threaten suicide only when I was disagreeing with him - and when I said 'next time you say that, we will get some immediate help' - the threats stopped. Pure manipulation to get his way.
I came to see it as abusive and told him to change or leave, because his behaviour was disrespectful and damaging. He has made efforts to change, but the patterns are still there, just muted. There is a cycle that builds up where he feels like everyone is against him and basically picks an unfair fight with me.
I just feel deeply hurt at how he has treated me and for how tough it has made parenting because of all the conflict and stress. It is hugely disappointing and upsetting.
So does anyone else feel manipulated by the unwell person in their life? It's a murky area but being a carer it's important to find that line where we are supportive but not enabling.
Thanks for reading, there's not many places I feel comfortable venting so I'm really grateful for this space.

[Fancy_Pants]

Hi @Tatsinda,

It sounds like you are in a really difficult situation, you are obviously working hard to support him but its such a difficult line to draw to determine what he is able to be doing but choses not to. its good to hear though that you are recognising some of your value and worth as a person and a partner and so starting to think about your boundaries and needs because you cant help him (or continue to parent) if you are burnt out. 

do you have any family or friends who are supporting you? 

I know you have already contributed a lot to this forum and connected with a number of members but have you seen this or this thread? i wonder what others would think about your question.. @Cazzie @kristin @Annie2 @VinegarTom

[kristin]

Dear @Tatsinda

This is really painful stuff you are facing up to - I take my hat off to you for your courage.

In some ways it sounds a lot like what I have been through with my former partner (who still lived with us for several years after we split up so my youngest could have contact & so he wouldn't go back to living on the streets).

I really encourage you to keep speaking out here, and asking yourself these hard questions about what boundaries do you need to set for your own & your kids' sakes. Yes they are ill - depression and PTSD are incredibly hard to live with - but you know I have these things too, and I still manage to function (mostly) as a parent. In fact I'd say that needing to parent well enough has been a primary factor in facing up to my own issues and pain, so that I DON'T inflict it on my kids. 

A question I have needed to ask myself is: what message has it been sending to my kids about relationships, that I have allowed him to behave this way towards me/them? That it is ok, "normal". I know a large part of why I have put up with it for so long is because my parents' behaviour towards each other and me taught me this is how it is in relationships - abusive. I don't know if you are familiar with Alice Cooper's Only Women Bleed (way before its time, about an abusive marriage)? I haven't heard it for decades, just listened to it &had a cry. I believed this was true- even when I first heard it at 13. It is only in the last couple of years that I have begun to grapple with what experiencing and witnessing family violence (and yes ongoing emotional abuse and manipulation is family violence too) did to my understanding and expectations of relationships.

Keep up the good work on boundaries. The more you can suss this the better off your kids will be.

Now my 7yo can tell when it's not her stuff (in spite of her dad always blaming her in the past when he lost it), and say so. I had a really hellish Melb Cup weekend with lots of somatic stuff being stirred up like a hornet's nest, from the abuse I suffered as a child. The anger was leaking out a lot, try as I might to contain it and take time out to quiet things down. I kept snapping at the kids, especially my 7yo. She said to me "stop being so angry!". When I cooled down a bit I was able to go and apologise to her, and tell her it is not her fault that I am so tressed and snappy.

Hope for a healing journey endures...

Kindest regards, Kristin

PS @Fancy_Pants thanks so much for tagging me on this, I would not have known about it if you hadn't. I have not been on the forums much at all for most of this year, I have been working really hard on trying to deal with all the stuff which has been thrown at me (internally & externally).

[Former-Member]

Hi @Tatsinda,

This question of wether I am being manipulated is something that I have wrestled with a lot. Is my partner really depressed and anxious? Are the AD's just another drug? I have read an a lot trying to work out an answer to this question and never really obtained a definitive one. In doing this I have obsessed too much about his behaviour. It does not matter either way really because in either case you do not help someone by putting up with abuse. You just end up with two mentally ill people instead of one. If you are asking this question it might mean you are running out of coping ability. I hope you find some help.

[Tight-Control]

Hi,

It sounds like you are in that hard place between caring and feeling manipulated.

Have a look at resourses to help you have the hard converstaions with your partner.

There are ways of speaking that can be very good in getting the way you feel across without 'blaming" and causing an argument.

Using "I langauge ..

eg "When you do .... I feel like ....... "

Not "You are making me feel like this when you do that "

It is difficult to get the words right but you can be assertive without being aggressive . it allows all people involved to speak about  how they feel , and can get past a lot of issues. It conects people with the outcomes of there actions in a non-threatening way.

Ask a Mental health professional about this type of language .It is a learned skill and does not come naturally to 99% of the population.

Be strong for you, your kids and your partner.

[artee]

I can so relate to this and I'm sorry you've found yourself in such a difficult situation. I am very manipulated by my husband who has an acquired brain injury (ABI). He won't do anything that isn't what he wants to do or isn't about him and controls and bullies me all day every day. I don't have children. I have a child in an adult body now. Boundaries I set are ignored or forgotten in minutes because it's all about him in his little world.

I guess depression and PTSD affect different people differently, but there is no need to be abusive. I fell into an episode of acute clinical depression for a couple of years (before hubby's ABI) and every day was an effort to communicate or do anything. I have PTSD too, but that is only set off by abuse from others. I find it amazing that my husband, who can't remember 99% of what I said three minutes ago, is so tuned into how to abuse me using the effects of the PTSD against me. More manipulation, because he knows I'll go out of my way to avoid triggering it, which he uses to get his own way far too often.

Boundaries are essential. Don't waver on yours, no matter what tricks he pulls to get his own way. Have you had counselling? I've found that very helpful for me in the past, to ensure that the ways I attempt to set and hold boundaries are good and to get feedback from an impartial source that I am being abused and that I am not just imagining things.

[Tatsinda]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and apologies for taking a little hole to get back here. To answer a couple of questions, yes I have had some very helpful counselling and i do have support people to turn to so although I often feel like I am dealing with things alone there are always friends asking me regularly how I am doing. @kristin I do worry about the effect on the kids so it's helpful to hear your experiences. I worry about normalising abusive behaviour for them. I hope they see me standing up to my husband and learn from that - I guess as I work on my boundaries it should flow on to them. @artee you have my sympathy - from what I understand ABIs are incredibly unfair to deal with because there's no sense of responsibility for actions that we expect from others who are neuro typical. Very hard. I guess detaching when you can might help? Respite care? I have found putting my foot down and saying what I will be doing helps - just putting my needs into the relationship. Eg for me an example was 'I can't deal with your anger and I will be walking away until you are calm'. Or even just "I feel uncomfortable with that'. For you it might be a completely different boundary - and hard to find practical ways to enforce them! But it's a step toward looking after your needs.
What I find hard is where to draw the line on behaviour.
My husband has made some big changes this year but he will still do or say things that don't sit well with me. I guess I've taken the approach of fighting the big battles first and leaving some of the smaller ones for now. Need to recharge and regroup! We have a long history of not relating very healthily so I guess it will take time to effect change too. And I struggle to know what to say to cut to the heart of things rather than letting the manipulation run it course. He wants a close relationship but seems to not get the connection between that and needing to act kindly and respectfully, even when stressed.
Thanks again to you all, you really helped me .