Career Chat // Friday 29 Jan // Why work?

[Terry]

@Debstar as a volunteer i do some very high level work, actually, and get good results, but i wouldn't try that in the paid workforce with stigma, discrimination, etc to cope with - in addition to australia's already vicious office politics situation.  plus i'm a woman and men don't even seem to want us in the workplace, mostly - what do they want us to do - sunbake in the backyard all day?!  *whinge, whinge - sorry*

[Terry]

@Mazarita yes, you are late!  here is a copy of last week's minutes! *couriers minutes to sane's HQ with instructions to courier them on to mazarita* :0

[Debstar]

Thanks for contributing @wombat, @Mazarita, @Posie, and @Terry I  really appreciate  the contributions to our chat, and the challenges that have been shared about working.

@wombat, yeah I agree. Job hunting can be quite overwhelming sometimes. I had my good and bad days job hunting, but what I did was try to keep it in perspective and remember that it is a numbers game and that eventually something would come through.  Each “no”  or lack of response I received  had me one step closer to a yes. Hard to see and do at the time, but remembering this helped me to feel better.

I allocated a set  time to do the applications, so I didn’t spend all day feeling bad that I hadn’t started. And then I often rewarded  myself with a small gift eg, buying myself some flowers or a coffee/ chai ..etc..    And I would make sure that each day I still did something I enjoyed so my whole life didn’t become about  job hunting.  Doing what I could to remain positive (eg focussing on three things I was grateful for each day) and being aware of what I was saying to myself (especially the negative stuff) helped my stay positive during this time.

@Mazarita, thanks for sharing your work history with us, and some of the challenges you have faced. Can understand that you are reluctant to enter the paid workforce after what you have been through. Congratulations on your new job. How fantastic is that!  So happy for you!  I think that is a fantastic plan to gradually build up your volunteering with careful management. Sounds like a well thought out plan, and who knows, maybe in the longer term future, you may wish to pursue paid work.   All the best with this opportunity, sounds like a really great starting point.  And how cool that the opportunity came about with the help of SANE forums.  Love it!  

@Posie, I can understand your concern re lack of understanding from potential employers.  Yes, I agree,  retail and hospitality do provide flexibility.  But Corporate Australia also has lots of flexibility.   Many larger organisations have diversity managers and programs to manage diversity, and they are well placed to provide job share opportunities, work from home arrangements and run a range of diversity programs for staff etc..  I can tell you from personal experience that I worked for a large employer and they had a mental health organisation come in and talk to all staff about mental health and managers were also  trained to help create a culture that supported diversity.  I enjoyed working there and know that staff felt very supported and really enjoyed working there too.

@Terry, you are right. Not every work place is mentally healthy.  It can depend on the workplace and the culture and what the business sets down as acceptable conduct.   At Ostara for example, before we place anyone into jobs, we meet with the employer to assess the workplace.  In saying that, at the Interview and during your time on probation, this is your time to make an assessment. If you are ever in an environment that is not mentally healthy and not the right fit, speak to the employer or find another employer that is a better fit.  I know this can be challenging to do, so make sure you have the support structure around you to support you. For example, SANE forum, a friend/ and or professional to talk to..etc.

It would be good to here some benefits of working. This could be in paid or volunteer roles. Anyone have any personal experiences they would like to share or ideas they may have?

[Terry]

Yes, certainly - the rewards of working are manifold - money (not), stimulation, routine, 'social contact', a sense of accomplishment, occupation, challenge, new skills, forward-planning, etc 🙂

[Mazarita]

I might mention that this particular chat session was preceded by some rather impassioned posts around employment and disability in another discussion thread yesterday. Reflecting over the past day on what was said there, it occurred to me that issues surrounding employment may be the biggest source of stigma and self-stigma to those of us with mental illness.

For the years I have been too ill to do structured work of any kind, I have been terrified of the question from other people, 'what do you do?', which is often the first thing that new people ask of us. This has been a significant part of why I have withdrawn so completely into my flat over many years and has been a source of great self-loathing. Though I am in some ways naturally very drawn to social contact and communication, I remain very afraid of meeting 'normal' people (ie. those that hold down a job). Despite the fact that I have been a highly engaged media artist for over 30 years (artistic work being something that is almost always 'voluntary'), the disapproval from other people about my 'unemployment' has been very palpable on many occasions. At the least, I can see that multiple questions arise in people's minds when I have had to tell them about my employment status (or lack of it). 

I think there needs to be a lot more recognition of the social contributions made by people with disabilities that are not in 'conventional employment'. Until that is more widely accepted, I think the one of the deepest cores of stigma around disability will remain. 

Sorry this is not exactly the positive response you requested, @Debstar, but it is a very real issue to me and I think to others on the forum too. Interested to hear anyone else's response.

[Appleblossom]

1) My experience of the work force is a little influenced by my gender and child rearing issues ... and then only later by disability issues ...yes even in this day and age.  I know many young mums transition back to full time work "relatively easily"? now, but there were less options when I was younger.

2) My current lifestyle is busy, engaged and productive .. but I only do one hour per week paid work for 40 weeks a year. It feels wiser to keep things going along in that way for my good and that of my family.

3) About 20 years someone warned me that the word "work" was the big problem word.  Eventually I have developed a range of verbal stances and repartees to help manage social situations when it comes up.  Being prepared for the stigma has made a huge difference than becoming flummoxed and vague or distressed in light hearted social situations when talking about what I do .. day to day.

4) My son has been so alienated by society's attitude to success, work, greed and stuff ... that he does not want to contribute to it ... he has decided on music and composition ... not big money spinners ... I respect that ... I just want us to be viable.

[Terry]

Hear hear.  Well said.

[Terry]

Hear hear.  True.  Tks for the tips too.

[Mazarita]

@Appleblossom,

I'm really interested in the verbal stances and repartees you have developed to deal with the question, 'what do you do?', when it comes up. I am always prepared for the stigma but that just seems to make me more anxious in advance and at the time. I sympathise with your son's attitudes and think it's great that he has developed a sense of vocation without structured work. Artistic 'work' has always been a lifeline for me through physical and mental illness, something I've been able to do most of the time even when very ill. Part of the reason for this is that it can be done in an unstructured way that better suits those of us with chronic and erratic illnesses. It's also something that has preserved some measure of self esteem in me in the face of serious erosion of that from external societal pressures.

I am also old enough to remember a time when it was much more optional for women to work in structured employment without the need for extensive explanations. Because of my father's frequent long absences from our family unit and his inability to hold down paid work himself, my mother was often in the position of working single mum back in the 1960s. I remember that in our social context she was a bit of an oddity to be a woman working at that time. I remember the 1980s as the time when women really started to be actively pressured to engage with structured employment as a societal 'norm'. I think women and families have lost a lot in there being apparently so little choice these days as to whether women work outside the home (unless there is a high degree of affluence in the male partner's occupation). It's ironic to me that feminism (which I support in so many ways) was involved in creating this situation of less choice for women by emphasising economic values so highly in women's lives and bringing on the role model of the 'supermum'.

@Debstar, I probably won't be looking for paid employment again. My life of repeatedly attempting and failing at structured employment has also left me close to homeless on at least a couple of occasions because the amount of money I could earn doing casual or part-time work was often less than what I would have even received on Newstart. As many of us know it is close to impossible to live on Newstart Allowance so you can imagine what it was like being in paid employment and earning less. Waiting periods for social security after health crashes and between jobs has left me in dire financial straits many times. I have had trouble clothing myself, feeding myself and have had to live in very sub-standard rental housing, all the while struggling with illness while in the workforce. The basic livable income I now receive on a disability pension is the only financial security I've ever had in my life and my health has really only recently started improving because of the relief from constant high anxiety and stress now. I am so grateful for this but very sad that there is such stigma involved in receiving it, including the way I can't help but beat myself up over it.

I am interested and open to other perspectives and very much appreciate hearing other people's experiences with disability and employment, whether paid or otherwise.

[Terry]

@Mazarita hear hear!  i will tell people in future that i can't participate in the paid workforce 'due to prohibitive stigma' but i presume they will look down on me anyway. comme ci comme ca - there's plenty of volunteer work out there.  lata, lovely people x